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	<title>Comments on: Connect.ed</title>
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	<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/</link>
	<description>Conversation. Collaboration. Community.</description>
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		<title>By: Luke Harvey-Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/comment-page-1/#comment-17179</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Harvey-Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/#comment-17179</guid>
		<description>Ah, Trib, a rather large subject, but one that in my mind can best be compared to all areas of our society that grapple with adoption of new technology.  Business, media, politics and education are the 4 pillars of an essential network I have my clients understand..and interestingly all four pillars have similar uptake rates for new technology and especially online collaboration = low!  Why is this...well in my limited experience it does not stem from budget constraints, leadership or lack of vision...it stems from a lack of critical mass and understanding.  Whilst there are some great and passionate comments here - there are 23 (including this one).  Many of us here have large &#039;social media&#039; followings in to the 000&#039;s..whoopdy doo!  For the average Australian (of which there are 13 million adults!) the uptake, understanding and general interest in the things we discuss here is VERY LOW.  This is the issue...how do you get the average Australian interested and engaged in this conversation/subject?  After 15 years of leading some of the biggest change and technology projects in the land, I have not yet found the answer to this...and until someone does, I fear for the &#039;revolution&#039; required that some people refer to here.  In closing, I am not admitting defeat; I am the worlds most disgusting optimist, but I think we may be missing the real issues here, and not focusing on the root cause of the problem.  The solution may ultimately rest with the average Joe and Jane...not our leaders or indeed us!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, Trib, a rather large subject, but one that in my mind can best be compared to all areas of our society that grapple with adoption of new technology.  Business, media, politics and education are the 4 pillars of an essential network I have my clients understand..and interestingly all four pillars have similar uptake rates for new technology and especially online collaboration = low!  Why is this&#8230;well in my limited experience it does not stem from budget constraints, leadership or lack of vision&#8230;it stems from a lack of critical mass and understanding.  Whilst there are some great and passionate comments here &#8211; there are 23 (including this one).  Many of us here have large &#8217;social media&#8217; followings in to the 000&#8217;s..whoopdy doo!  For the average Australian (of which there are 13 million adults!) the uptake, understanding and general interest in the things we discuss here is VERY LOW.  This is the issue&#8230;how do you get the average Australian interested and engaged in this conversation/subject?  After 15 years of leading some of the biggest change and technology projects in the land, I have not yet found the answer to this&#8230;and until someone does, I fear for the &#8216;revolution&#8217; required that some people refer to here.  In closing, I am not admitting defeat; I am the worlds most disgusting optimist, but I think we may be missing the real issues here, and not focusing on the root cause of the problem.  The solution may ultimately rest with the average Joe and Jane&#8230;not our leaders or indeed us!</p>
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		<title>By: barry.b</title>
		<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/comment-page-1/#comment-14608</link>
		<dc:creator>barry.b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 04:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/#comment-14608</guid>
		<description>Prue, that&#039;s exactly what was being said on http://www.abc.net.au/rn/edpod/stories/2008/2265585.htm so you&#039;re in good company with those thoughts.

to be perfectly honest though, based on the research by Dr. Sugata Mitra and his &quot;hole in the wall&quot; project** I&#039;d rather see the teaching of ethics (classical ethics not &quot;right and wrong&quot;) to teach critical thinking and leave the children to nut put the tools themselves.

I mean, we&#039;re still talking about hammers and other tools  here (ICT literacy)

More important (IMHO) they know how to communicate, how to interact with the world and it&#039;s people around them 

... and why




** some core info here:
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/india/thestory.html

a really bad recording of a talk of his http://design-notes-deepankar.blogspot.com/2007/11/sugata-mitra-can-kids-teach-themselves.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prue, that&#8217;s exactly what was being said on <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/rn/edpod/stories/2008/2265585.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/rn/edpod/stories/2008/2265585.htm</a> so you&#8217;re in good company with those thoughts.</p>
<p>to be perfectly honest though, based on the research by Dr. Sugata Mitra and his &#8220;hole in the wall&#8221; project** I&#8217;d rather see the teaching of ethics (classical ethics not &#8220;right and wrong&#8221;) to teach critical thinking and leave the children to nut put the tools themselves.</p>
<p>I mean, we&#8217;re still talking about hammers and other tools  here (ICT literacy)</p>
<p>More important (IMHO) they know how to communicate, how to interact with the world and it&#8217;s people around them </p>
<p>&#8230; and why</p>
<p>** some core info here:<br />
<a href="http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/india/thestory.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/india/thestory.html</a></p>
<p>a really bad recording of a talk of his <a href="http://design-notes-deepankar.blogspot.com/2007/11/sugata-mitra-can-kids-teach-themselves.html" rel="nofollow">http://design-notes-deepankar.blogspot.com/2007/11/sugata-mitra-can-kids-teach-themselves.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Prue Salter</title>
		<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/comment-page-1/#comment-14605</link>
		<dc:creator>Prue Salter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 04:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/#comment-14605</guid>
		<description>Wow, so many great points here I’d like to respond to but I am going to just focus on one:

As an ex-teacher who still works in schools on a consulting capacity, I couldn’t agree more that we need a massive revolution in the way we approach education in schools. But the biggest stumbling block I see is our assessment systems. The problem in NSW is that as students approach the senior years everything is geared towards the final exams and university entrance scores. I taught secondary Maths. At this level you are starting to get close to the ‘interesting’ Maths and there are some great things you could do that would make the experience more collaborative and connected with excellent graphics programs and online experiences and investigations. But the problem I faced was that the syllabus was so crowded, it was a race just to try and help students understand the bulk of the course material – you couldn’t leave anything out, not just because it was in the syllabus but because students university entrances were being determined by these exams. There are so many things I would have loved to be able to try and do but was unable to -  more due to time constraints than anything else. Our school had the facilities, I had the expertise, we just didn’t have the luxury of time. I can’t immediately see a solution to this problem – I guess the first step is recognition of the problem. But while we are in an educational system that is so exam-focused I can’t see major change being possible. I do wonder if we go to a national curriculum in Australia if things will change as not all  other states have the big external exams that we have. 

One last comment: I wholeheartedly agree we need to pay teachers well. After teaching on a great salary in HK and Singapore where teaching is a respected profession I was horrified to come back to the Australian pay scale. BUT. If you want an impressive salary, then you need to be accountable. Teaching is one of the few professions where you can close the door and pretty much do what you like an incompetents are shuffled from school to school. Some schools are already leading the way – one of the schools I taught in students (and parents) evaluated teacher performance every year, you had to set your goals and professional development for the year and Head teachers would sit in on your lessons at least once a year. And so it should be! And how about this for an idea, double teachers pay but give them only 4 weeks holiday a year like everyone else and have them teaching community courses or adult education in the school holidays…….</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, so many great points here I’d like to respond to but I am going to just focus on one:</p>
<p>As an ex-teacher who still works in schools on a consulting capacity, I couldn’t agree more that we need a massive revolution in the way we approach education in schools. But the biggest stumbling block I see is our assessment systems. The problem in NSW is that as students approach the senior years everything is geared towards the final exams and university entrance scores. I taught secondary Maths. At this level you are starting to get close to the ‘interesting’ Maths and there are some great things you could do that would make the experience more collaborative and connected with excellent graphics programs and online experiences and investigations. But the problem I faced was that the syllabus was so crowded, it was a race just to try and help students understand the bulk of the course material – you couldn’t leave anything out, not just because it was in the syllabus but because students university entrances were being determined by these exams. There are so many things I would have loved to be able to try and do but was unable to &#8211;  more due to time constraints than anything else. Our school had the facilities, I had the expertise, we just didn’t have the luxury of time. I can’t immediately see a solution to this problem – I guess the first step is recognition of the problem. But while we are in an educational system that is so exam-focused I can’t see major change being possible. I do wonder if we go to a national curriculum in Australia if things will change as not all  other states have the big external exams that we have. </p>
<p>One last comment: I wholeheartedly agree we need to pay teachers well. After teaching on a great salary in HK and Singapore where teaching is a respected profession I was horrified to come back to the Australian pay scale. BUT. If you want an impressive salary, then you need to be accountable. Teaching is one of the few professions where you can close the door and pretty much do what you like an incompetents are shuffled from school to school. Some schools are already leading the way – one of the schools I taught in students (and parents) evaluated teacher performance every year, you had to set your goals and professional development for the year and Head teachers would sit in on your lessons at least once a year. And so it should be! And how about this for an idea, double teachers pay but give them only 4 weeks holiday a year like everyone else and have them teaching community courses or adult education in the school holidays…….</p>
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		<title>By: barry.b</title>
		<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/comment-page-1/#comment-14515</link>
		<dc:creator>barry.b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/#comment-14515</guid>
		<description>isn&#039;t it just so telling that Greg Whitby is from the private (faith-based) school sector. I&#039;m glad he&#039;s got the time and resources to work towards promoting his ideals.

in 2004, while working for a private faith-based high school in Sydney, my eyes were well and truly opened by a whole school who &quot;understood&quot;. Where every single child was expected to have a laptop, pull lesson down from a (wifi) network share, create video blogs of excursions, forum posts, international video link-ups, television-quality assignments, etc. And they&#039;d been doing this for a while and was just about to roll this out down to primary school level.

and yet last year the local large public high school in a  comfortable middle-class area here in Brisbane finally introduced it&#039;s ICE program that went somewhat towards this goal. Sadly, only enough infrastructure to off it to 2 classes of year 8 students, not all nine. and only a shadow of what I saw in 2004.

Principals, deputies, teachers et al in public schools would *all* love to improve the ICT literacy of students  in line with the real world. But this is a luxury they can&#039;t afford, both money AND time. They&#039;re too busy keeping the roof up over kids heads, finding resources to obtain social workers for childen in risk or having behaviour problems, extra support for children with learning or other disabilities, teaching the basics, books, *_basic_computers_in classrooms_* , surviving yet more stupid and short-sighted ideas from State or Federal government &quot;boffins&quot;.

lets talk about equity. Lets talk about a quality education for ALL children, no matter what their social-economic status or city Vs country.

lets ensure ALL children thrive in the 21st century and ICT literacy doesn&#039;t turn into yet another version of the haves and have-nots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>isn&#8217;t it just so telling that Greg Whitby is from the private (faith-based) school sector. I&#8217;m glad he&#8217;s got the time and resources to work towards promoting his ideals.</p>
<p>in 2004, while working for a private faith-based high school in Sydney, my eyes were well and truly opened by a whole school who &#8220;understood&#8221;. Where every single child was expected to have a laptop, pull lesson down from a (wifi) network share, create video blogs of excursions, forum posts, international video link-ups, television-quality assignments, etc. And they&#8217;d been doing this for a while and was just about to roll this out down to primary school level.</p>
<p>and yet last year the local large public high school in a  comfortable middle-class area here in Brisbane finally introduced it&#8217;s ICE program that went somewhat towards this goal. Sadly, only enough infrastructure to off it to 2 classes of year 8 students, not all nine. and only a shadow of what I saw in 2004.</p>
<p>Principals, deputies, teachers et al in public schools would *all* love to improve the ICT literacy of students  in line with the real world. But this is a luxury they can&#8217;t afford, both money AND time. They&#8217;re too busy keeping the roof up over kids heads, finding resources to obtain social workers for childen in risk or having behaviour problems, extra support for children with learning or other disabilities, teaching the basics, books, *_basic_computers_in classrooms_* , surviving yet more stupid and short-sighted ideas from State or Federal government &#8220;boffins&#8221;.</p>
<p>lets talk about equity. Lets talk about a quality education for ALL children, no matter what their social-economic status or city Vs country.</p>
<p>lets ensure ALL children thrive in the 21st century and ICT literacy doesn&#8217;t turn into yet another version of the haves and have-nots.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/comment-page-1/#comment-14461</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/#comment-14461</guid>
		<description>Whoops - dropped the link to Greg Whitby&#039;s site : 
http://gbwhitby.parra.catholic.edu.au/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops &#8211; dropped the link to Greg Whitby&#8217;s site :<br />
<a href="http://gbwhitby.parra.catholic.edu.au/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://gbwhitby.parra.catholic.edu.au/index.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/comment-page-1/#comment-14460</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/#comment-14460</guid>
		<description>Today&#039;s Conversation Hour (ABC 702 local radio) was with Greg Whitby  who sounded very impressive in his approach to modern schooling. &quot;The emergence of relational technologies means learning can now take place anywhere and anytime. Our schools must be able to meet the demands of a knowledge age&quot;
The conversation will be available as a podcast in the next day or so ... http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/conversations/default.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today&#8217;s Conversation Hour (ABC 702 local radio) was with Greg Whitby  who sounded very impressive in his approach to modern schooling. &#8220;The emergence of relational technologies means learning can now take place anywhere and anytime. Our schools must be able to meet the demands of a knowledge age&#8221;<br />
The conversation will be available as a podcast in the next day or so &#8230; <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/conversations/default.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/brisbane/conversations/default.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: barry.b</title>
		<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/comment-page-1/#comment-14437</link>
		<dc:creator>barry.b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/#comment-14437</guid>
		<description>&quot;Education Roundtable: do we need a revolution?&quot;
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/archive/audioonly/edp_roundtable.mp3
(esp the part about &quot;wired&quot; schools and funding**)


&quot;Schools for the 21st century&quot;
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/edpod/stories/2007/2000292.htm


** for the record, next week the wife is running the school fete to buy two more interactive whiteboards for her school ... to replace the ones that have been stolen...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Education Roundtable: do we need a revolution?&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/archive/audioonly/edp_roundtable.mp3" rel="nofollow">http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/archive/audioonly/edp_roundtable.mp3</a><br />
(esp the part about &#8220;wired&#8221; schools and funding**)</p>
<p>&#8220;Schools for the 21st century&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.abc.net.au/rn/edpod/stories/2007/2000292.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/rn/edpod/stories/2007/2000292.htm</a></p>
<p>** for the record, next week the wife is running the school fete to buy two more interactive whiteboards for her school &#8230; to replace the ones that have been stolen&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: barry.b</title>
		<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/comment-page-1/#comment-14383</link>
		<dc:creator>barry.b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/#comment-14383</guid>
		<description>Stephen, I implore you. If you go down this path, get it 100% right by not ignoring the underlying issues that have caused this situation to arise in the first place. These are not 2008 issues - they are 2001 ones not yet solved.

you are spot on saying there has been too much talk and not enough action, but there&#039;s been a hell of a lot of boffins who have dived into this half-cocked without understanding the depth and breadth of this problem. the schools are littered with failed results of dead programs or dying inititives - students directly suffer when this happens. You want case studies/examples of this?

we have a federal education department and six state ones, Universities (training teachers) and TAFE&#039;s (TAFE in schools programs) all looking (or have looked) at this issue. Sure they have their own problems of not singing from the same hymn book, reinventing the wheel or (in the case of reintroducing phonics in Queensland) going back to the future. Check this barney out:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/edpod/stories/2008/2306385.htm on how educated people still get it wrong.

and, compared to the hundreds of people researching and implementing education strategy and policy with multi-million dollar budgets and decades of experiance, are you *sure* you have an answer that will not only work in the safe comfortable middle-class sourounds of the ACT, but also Redfern, Inala, Mt Isa, Alice Springs, et al? Because *that&#039;s* where reform needs to target - the battlers. the kids that _really_ do it tough.

I&#039;ve said enough now and best of luck to you on this journey. If you treat it like any typical well run ICT project you&#039;ll have a head start. Thorough requirements gathering, buy-in from stakeholders, contingency, implementation strategy. but most of all, listen to those that have tried and failed in the past. This whole thing is nothing new.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen, I implore you. If you go down this path, get it 100% right by not ignoring the underlying issues that have caused this situation to arise in the first place. These are not 2008 issues &#8211; they are 2001 ones not yet solved.</p>
<p>you are spot on saying there has been too much talk and not enough action, but there&#8217;s been a hell of a lot of boffins who have dived into this half-cocked without understanding the depth and breadth of this problem. the schools are littered with failed results of dead programs or dying inititives &#8211; students directly suffer when this happens. You want case studies/examples of this?</p>
<p>we have a federal education department and six state ones, Universities (training teachers) and TAFE&#8217;s (TAFE in schools programs) all looking (or have looked) at this issue. Sure they have their own problems of not singing from the same hymn book, reinventing the wheel or (in the case of reintroducing phonics in Queensland) going back to the future. Check this barney out:<br />
<a href="http://www.abc.net.au/rn/edpod/stories/2008/2306385.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/rn/edpod/stories/2008/2306385.htm</a> on how educated people still get it wrong.</p>
<p>and, compared to the hundreds of people researching and implementing education strategy and policy with multi-million dollar budgets and decades of experiance, are you *sure* you have an answer that will not only work in the safe comfortable middle-class sourounds of the ACT, but also Redfern, Inala, Mt Isa, Alice Springs, et al? Because *that&#8217;s* where reform needs to target &#8211; the battlers. the kids that _really_ do it tough.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said enough now and best of luck to you on this journey. If you treat it like any typical well run ICT project you&#8217;ll have a head start. Thorough requirements gathering, buy-in from stakeholders, contingency, implementation strategy. but most of all, listen to those that have tried and failed in the past. This whole thing is nothing new.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hollands</title>
		<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/comment-page-1/#comment-14380</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Hollands</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/#comment-14380</guid>
		<description>I agree that teachers definately deserve better incentives for their efforts.  But performance based pay for teachers is a difficult proposition.  On what do you rate them?  Attempts at applying improvements in classroom test scores to measure teacher performance in the US resulted in some teachers gaming the system to get the bonus.  

When I was at school, there were a few teachers that I had that stood out as the best, but they achieved that through different means.  My Physics teacher was hugely devoted to his job, holding voluntary extra classes before school and throwing a lot of extra effort above and beyond the stardard required.  Conversely my English teacher was very good at the way she interacted with students 1 on 1, encouraging each student to achieve their best in different ways.  

Results, time, interaction, instruction are all aspects that go into being a good teacher.  They can all be difficult to quantify.

Lack of career progression is another issue that I hadn&#039;t thought of.  

In terms of IT in schools, my Aunt is involved with ACT Education policy in relation to IT.  I&#039;ve spoken to her about the issues that schools have with licensing digital materials.  

I know that most Dip. Ed programs these days are getting involved with teaching the prospective teachers about using social media internet tools, like wikis and blogs.  Though from what I&#039;ve seen it seems a bit haphazard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that teachers definately deserve better incentives for their efforts.  But performance based pay for teachers is a difficult proposition.  On what do you rate them?  Attempts at applying improvements in classroom test scores to measure teacher performance in the US resulted in some teachers gaming the system to get the bonus.  </p>
<p>When I was at school, there were a few teachers that I had that stood out as the best, but they achieved that through different means.  My Physics teacher was hugely devoted to his job, holding voluntary extra classes before school and throwing a lot of extra effort above and beyond the stardard required.  Conversely my English teacher was very good at the way she interacted with students 1 on 1, encouraging each student to achieve their best in different ways.  </p>
<p>Results, time, interaction, instruction are all aspects that go into being a good teacher.  They can all be difficult to quantify.</p>
<p>Lack of career progression is another issue that I hadn&#8217;t thought of.  </p>
<p>In terms of IT in schools, my Aunt is involved with ACT Education policy in relation to IT.  I&#8217;ve spoken to her about the issues that schools have with licensing digital materials.  </p>
<p>I know that most Dip. Ed programs these days are getting involved with teaching the prospective teachers about using social media internet tools, like wikis and blogs.  Though from what I&#8217;ve seen it seems a bit haphazard.</p>
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		<title>By: Harriet Wakelam</title>
		<link>http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/comment-page-1/#comment-14376</link>
		<dc:creator>Harriet Wakelam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acidlabs.org/2008/08/11/connected/#comment-14376</guid>
		<description>Yes, I&#039;m ready - thanks for starting this conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;m ready &#8211; thanks for starting this conversation.</p>
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